TaxTMI 
TaxTMI 
2006 (12) TMI 171
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....ether, the provisions made for doubtful debts, advances & investments, i.e., for unascertained liabilities, falls within the purview of adjustments under section 115JA of the Income-tax Act, 1961 and whether the Assessing Officer was justified to make adjust of Rs. 1,56,00,000 in this case in computing the books profits?" 2. The case was fixed for hearing on 5-5-2006 and on this date the learned A/R of the assessee raised preliminary objection against the question referred for the consideration of the Special Bench. He contended that the question framed has described the provision made for doubtful debts as unascertained liability. The question is referred with a pre-conceived notion that the provision for doubtful debts, advances and investments is unascertained liability. In such an event, the issue before the Special Bench would be diluted. The Ld. A/R contended that the question may kindly be reframed by expunging the words "unascertained liability". The Ld. D.R., on the other hand, has stated that the question has rightly been framed. The Special Bench referred the matter to the Hon'ble President, I.T.A.T. for necessary orders. The Hon'ble President directed that the ....
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....d for the permission of the Hon'ble President, I.T.A.T to join as intervener with regard to Revenue's appeal for assessment years 1997-98 and 1998-99 vide I.T.A. Nos. 1485 & 1486 (Kol.)/2002. The Hon'ble President, I.T.A.T. referred these two appeals also to the Special Bench as the issue raised in these appeals is identical to the issue raised before the Special Bench. Accordingly, we proceed to decide the appeals of the revenue in the case of Indian Container Leasing Co. Ltd. 5. The ld. Departmental Representative Mr. M.W. Haque an behalf of the revenue has first stated the fact of the case and submitted that the assessee M/s. Usha Martin Industries Ltd. has filed its return of income showing a gross loss of Rs. 38,76,70,246. However, it computed book profit under section 115JA at Rs. 14.52 crores. The Assessing Officer while processing the return under section 143(1)(a) added provision for doubtful debts to the tune of Rs. 1,56,00,000 and provision for Wealth-tax of Rs. 1,25,000 in such calculation of book profit under section 115JA Such addition made by the Assessing Officer in computation of book profit were deleted by this Tribunal while disposing I.T.A. No. 693/....
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....c prepared as per Companies Act, such addition should have been upheld by the CIT(A). 9. The ld. D.R. has relied on the decision of the Hon'ble Madras High Court in case of Dy. CIT v. Beardsell Ltd. [2000] 244 ITR 256 wherein it has been held by the Hon'ble Madras High Court that if a debt had become irrecoverable, the same could be written off and deducted from the profit of the business and a debt, where the recovery was doubtful, could not be termed to be an ascertained liability as mentioned under section 115J of the Act and could not be excluded from the book profits. The ld. D.R. has accordingly pleaded that the facts of the present case are exactly identical to one disposed by the Hon'ble Madras High Court in case of Beardsell Ltd., which strengthen the action of Assessing Officer while adding such provisions for the computation of book profits. 10. The ld. D.R. has thereafter relied on the decision of the Calcutta Tribunal in case of ICI India Ltd. v. Dy. CIT [IT Appeal No. 2189(Cal.) of 1995, dated 18-11-2002], a copy of which placed in the paper book was filed by the revenue, which is available at pages 25 to 42, wherein the Tribunal while dealing with ident....
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....or doubtful debts. 13. In the rival submission, the ld. Authorized Representative for M/s. Usha Martin Industries Ltd., Sri Rahul Mitra opening the argument on behalf of the assessee stated that the Assessing Officer has added back the above provisions on the alleged ground that the same represents a provision made towards unexplained liabilities by invoking provisions of clause (c) of the Explanation appended below to section 115JA(2) of the Act. The ld. counsel submitted that the book profits under section 115JA are to be drawn in accordance with the provisions of Part II and Part III of Schedule VI to the Companies Act and Explanation appended below section 115JA(2) referred to certain adjustments by way of increase in respect of certain items as referred in clauses (a) to (f), out of which in the present cases only clauses (b) and (c) are material i.e., clause (b) which says that the amount carried to any reserve by whatever name called and clause (c) says about the amount or amounts set aside to provision made for meeting liabilities other than unascertained liabilities. It has, therefore, been submitted by the ld. counsel for the assessee that Special Bench has to decide as ....
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....Act envisages two types of provisions, namely amounts set apart for providing for depreciation, renewals or diminution in value of assets and amounts set apart for providing for any known liability. Shri Mitra has submitted that since clause (c) of the Explanation appended below section 115JA(2) of the Act provides that amounts set aside to provisions made for meeting liabilities other than ascertained liabilities should be added back to the net profit as per the profit and loss account for the purpose of computing the "book profit" within the meaning of the said statute, therefore, the provisions, which come within the ambit of clause (c) of the Explanation are only those made with respect to liabilities and that too on account of unascertained liabilities. It was, therefore, emphasized by Shri Mitra that the said clause does not cover provisions made for diminution in value of assets. 17. Shri Mitra has pointed out that in the instant case, the impugned provision of Rs. 1.56 crores has been made to provide for diminution in the values of certain assets, namely debtors, advances and investments of the assessee-company and not for any liability whether ascertained or unascertained....
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....considering the relevant provision laid down in clause (c) of Explanation to section 115JA has arrived at a conclusion that the provision for doubtful debts cannot be considered as provision for liability, much less than the ascertained liability as by no stretch of imagination, it can be said that there is any liability on an assessee in present or in future when a debt is considered as debt or doubtful. Shri Mitra pointed out that it has further been held by the ITAT, Pune Bench that there is no obligation on an assessee to pay any sum to anybody in such case and only consequence, that follows in considering the bad or doubtful, will reduce or diminish the value of assets of the assessee on account of non-recovery of the debt after observing the above. Sri Rahul Mitra pleaded that it has been held by the ITAT, Pune Bench that the provision made towards bad or doubtful debts could not be said as provision to meet any liability. 20. Concluding his argument, the ld. counsel Shri Mitra has submitted that the provision for doubtful debts has rightly been deducted by the assessee for computation of book profit under section 115JA and, therefore, the action of Assessing Officer in addi....
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....has pleaded that Part III of Schedule VI makes the words "provision" and "liability" more clear and understandable while interpreting the various words used therein. It has been stated by Shri Poddar that as per Part III clause 7 to 'Schedule VI of Companies Act, the word "provision" has been defined as under:- "The expression 'provision' shall, subject to sub-clause (2) of this clause, mean any amount written off or retained by way of providing for depreciation renewals or diminution in value of assets, or retained by way of providing for any known liability of which the amount cannot be determined with substantial accuracy." 23.2 The word "liability" has been defined as under:- "The expression 'liability' shall include all liabilities in respect of expenditure contracted for and all disputed or contingent liabilities, where (a) any amount written off or retained by way of providing for depreciation, renewals or diminution in value of assets, not being an amount written off in relation to fixed assets before the commencement of this Act; or (b) any amount retained by way of providing for any known liability; is in excess of the amount which in the opinio....
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....m was afterwards indiscriminately applied to any right of patronage exerted or usurped by the Pope. In French law. An allowance or alimony granted by a Judge to one of the parties in a cause for his or her maintenance until a definite judgment is rendered. In English History. A name given to certain statutes or acts of Parliament, particularly those intended to curb the arbitrary or usurped power of the sovereign, and also to certain other ordinances or declarations having the force of law. A term used in the reign of Henry III to designate enactments of the King in Council. Perhaps less solemn than statutes. The term 'statutes' was a later term with a changed conception of the solemnity of a statute, and is one that cannot easily be defined. It came into use in Edward I's reign, supplanting 'provisions' which is characteristic of Henry III's reign, which had supplanted 'assize', characteristic of the reign of Henry II. Richard and John Maltland, 2 Sel. Essays in Anglo-Am. Leg. Hist.80." 23.6 He has also referred to para 13.14 of guidance notes and terms used for financial statements by the Institute of Chartered Accountants of India which s....
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....he undistributed profits of the business and therefore part of the proprietorship, whereas provisions and accruals are a diminution of proprietorship in the form of a liability or diminution of an asset. The former are broadly appropriations of, the latter charges against profits." 25. Ld. Senior Counsel Shri Poddar has thereafter pointed out that the terminology provision for bad and doubtful debts has been interpreted by Spicer & Pegler, 17th Edition in their book "Book Keeping and Accounts" and has annexed the extract of such book, wherein the provision for bad debts has been defined as under:- "When a debt is found to be irrecoverable, it should be written off as a loss by means of a journal entry debiting bad debts account and crediting the account of the defaulting debtor. At the end of the accounting period the bad debts account is closed by transfer to the Profit and Loss Account. Should a debt which has been written off as bad be subsequently recovered, in whole or in part, the debtor's personal account should be debited and bad debts account credited, the cash received then being credited to the debtor's account. This is preferable to posting the amount recover....
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.... for computation of book profit under section 115JA. Shri Poddar has thereafter referred to his paper book and submitted that the issues involved in the case of both the assessees i.e., Balmer Lawrie and Indian Containers are similar which have been referred to in this Special Bench by the Hon'ble President, which should be decided in favour of assessee taking into consideration the various decisions of Tribunal and High Courts and after due interpretation terminology as defined in various books of accountancy in this regard. 27. Replying to the above argument, Ld. Senior D.R. Shri S.K Jain has submitted that the Hon'ble Chennai High Court has already elaborately discussed the issue involved before this Special Bench in case of Beardsell Ltd., wherein it was clearly held by the Hon'ble Madras High Court that the provision for bad debts falls under clause (c) to the Explanation (1) of sub-section (2) of section 115JA of the Act. Shri Jain has pointed out the above decision of the Hon'ble Madras High Court was made against the order passed under section 143(1)(a), which strengthen the plea of the revenue in treating such provision as unascertained liability as the Ho....
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....ely after taking into consideration the various case laws and by interpreting various terminology used in the books of accountancy, Income-tax law and the Company Law. It has, therefore, been pleaded by Shri Poddar that the issue has to be decided in favour of assessee. 30. We have carefully considered the rival submissions and perused the material placed before us. We will first take up the Revenue's appeal in the case of Usha Martin Industries Ltd. In this appeal by the revenue, the following ground has been raised:- "The Ld. CIT(A) erred in holding that the sum of Rs. 1,56,00,000 being provision for Doubtful debts, Advances & Investment and Rs. 1,25,000 being provision for wealth-tax could not be added back to the net profit for the purpose of computing the book profit within the meaning of section 115JA of the Income-tax Act since the same do not fall under any of the clauses (a) to (f) of the Explanation 2 of section 115JA(2) of the Act." 31. The facts of the case are that the assessee has filed a return disclosing total loss of Rs. 38,76,70,250. The Assessing Officer determined the net loss at Rs. 18,64,93,786. The Assessing Officer further found that the net profit d....
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.... 1956 (1 of 1956): Provided further that where a company has adopted or adopts the financial year under the Companies Act, 1956 (1 of 1956), which is different from the previous year under the Act, the method and rates for calculation of depreciation shall correspond to the method and rates which have been adopted for calculating the depreciation for such financial year or part of such financial year falling within the relevant previous year. Explanation.- For the purposes of this section, "book profit" means the net profit as shown in the profit and loss account for the relevant previous year prepared under sub-section (2), as increased by - (a) the amount of income-tax paid or payable, and the provision therefor; or (b) the amounts carried to any reserves by whatever name called; or (c) the amount or amounts set aside to provisions made for meeting liabilities, other than ascertained liabilities; or (d) the amount by way of provision for losses of subsidiary companies; or (e) the amount or amounts of dividends paid or proposed; or (f) the amount or amounts of expenditure relatable to any income to which any of the provisions of Chapter III applies; if any amount r....
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...." shall have the meaning assigned to it in clause (ga) of sub-section (1) of section 3 of the Sick Industrial Companies (Special Provisions) Act, 1985 (1 of 1986); or (viii) the amount of profits eligible for deduction under section 80HHC, computed under clause (a), (b) or (c) of subsection (3) or sub-section (3A), as the case may be, of that section, and subject to the conditions specified in subsections (4) and (4A) of that section; (ix) the amount of profits eligible for deduction under section 80HHE, computed under sub-section (3) of that section. (3) Nothing contained in sub-section (1) shall affect the determination of the amounts in relation to the relevant previous year to be carried forward to the subsequent year or years under the provisions of sub-section (2) of section 32 or subsection (3) of section 32A or clause (ii) of sub-section (1) of section 72 or section 73 or section 74 or sub-section (3) of section 74A. (4) Save as otherwise provided in this section, all other provisions of this Act shall apply to every assessee, being a company, mentioned in this section." 34. From the above it is evident that the provision of section 115JA has an overriding effect u....
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....y. While so looking into the accounts of the company, the Assessing Officer has to accept the authenticity of the accounts with reference to the provisions of the Companies Act, which obligate the company to maintain its accounts in a manner provided by the Act and the same to be scrutinized and certified by statutory auditors and approved by the company in general meeting and thereafter to be filed before the Registrar of Companies who has a statutory obligation also to examine and be satisfied that the accounts of the company are maintained in accordance with the requirements of the Companies Act. Sub-section (1A) of section 115J does not empower the Assessing Officer to embark upon a fresh enquiry in regard to the entries made in the books of account of the company." 36. From the above it is evident that the Assessing Officer has to accept the authenticity of the accounts maintained in accordance with the provisions of Parts-II & III of Schedule VI to the Companies Act, which are certified by the Auditors and approved by the company in the general meeting. He has only the power of examining whether the books of account are certified by the authorities under the Companies Act as....
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....for the purpose of Companies Act the assessee itself has included the provision for bad and doubtful debt in the net profit, the same has also to be included for the purpose of computing the book profit, because for the purpose of section 115JA the assessee has to prepare the Profit & Loss Account and balance sheet as per the provisions of the Companies Act. We find that the assessee has computed the net profit for computing the Director's remuneration as under:- For the year Ended 31st March, 1977 (Rupees in Thousands) For the year Ended 16. Schedule of computation of net profit in accordance with section 349 of Companies Act, 1956 for the purpose of directors' remuneration for the year ended 31st March 1977. Profit before taxation as per profit and loss account 14,62,80 Add : Depreciation as per account 8,07,65 Loss on sale of fixed assets as per account 3,06 Provision for doubtful debts, advances and investments 1,56,00 Provision for wealth tax as per account 1,25 Profit on sale of fixed assets considering 1,28 9,69,24 Depreciation under section 350 24,32,04 Less: Depreciati....
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....staff, or to any engineer, technician or person employed or engaged by the company, whether on a whole-time or on a part-time basis; (d) any tax notified by the Central Government as being in the nature of a tax on excess or abnormal profits; (e) any tax on business profits imposed for special reasons or in special circumstances and notified by the Central Government in its behalf; (f) interest on debentures issued by the company; (g) interest on mortgages executed by the company and on loans and advances secured by a charge on its fixed or floating assets; (h) interest on unsecured loans and advances; (i) expenses on repairs, whether to immovable or to movable property, provided the repairs are not of a capital nature; (j) outgoings [inclusive of contributions made under clause (e) of sub-section (1) of section 293]; (k) depreciation to the extent specified in section 350; (i) the excess of expenditure over income, which had arisen in computing the net profits in accordance with this section in any year which begins at or after the commencement of this Act, insofar as such excess has not been deducted in any subsequent year preceding the year in respect of which ....
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.... the extent permissible under Explanation thereto. The Explanation has provided six items, i.e., item Nos. (a) to (f) which if debited to the P/L Account can be added back to the net profit for computing the book profit. The provision for bad and doubtful debt has been debited to the P/L Account. Therefore, it can be added back to the net profit if it falls within any of the items provided under the Explanation. As per revenue, it falls within the category of item (c) and alternatively within item No. (b). We will first deal with item No. (c) which reads as under:- "The amount or amounts set aside to provisions made for meeting liabilities, other than ascertained liabilities." Thus, the assessee's case would fall within the ambit of item (c) if (i) the amount is set aside to any provision; (ii) the provision is made for meeting liability; and (iii) the provision should be for other than ascertained liability, i. e., it should be for unascertained liability. All the above three ingredients should be satisfied so as to bring the provision within the ambit of item (c) of the Explanation to section 115JA. 40. In the case of the assessee it is not in dispute that a sum of Rs. 1.....
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....lude the sum of Rs. 46,64,750 in the book profit as an unascertained liability under section 115J(1A)(c) of the Act. Clause (c) of the Explanation to section 115J of the Act would reveal that "book profit" means the net profit as shown in the profit and loss account for the relevant previous year prepared under sub-section (1A) as increased by the amount or amounts set aside to provisions made for meeting liabilities, other than ascertained liabilities. It is evident from the abovesaid section that unless a provision is made for ascertained liabilities, the provision made has to be included in book profit, for the purpose of taxation under section 115J of the Act. The respondent claimed exclusion for the sum of Rs. 46,64,750 from the profit and loss account on the ground that the same has been made as provision for irrecoverable debts due to the respondent company. If a debt has become irrecoverable as claimed by the respondent company the said company ought to have written off the debt and should have deducted it from the profit of the business to the extent written off. A debt, the recovery of which is doubtful, will not amount to writing off the same by the assessee concerned. I....
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....ndia. As per section 115JA, the P/L Account is to be prepared as per Parts-II & III of Schedule VI to the Companies Act. We find that Part-III of Schedule VI to the Companies Act defines the expression "provision" which means any amount written off or retained by way of providing for depreciation, renewals or diminution in the value of assets or retained by way of providing for any known liability of which the amount cannot be determined with substantial accuracy. The identical definition of the word "provision" is given by the Institute of Chartered Accountants of India in the guidance notes issued for its members. Similar definition is given in the books of accountancy by William Pickles. Thus, the provision can be for (1) depreciation; (ii) renewals; (iii) diminution in the value of assets; and (iv) for any known liability of which the amount cannot be determined with substantial accuracy. 43.1 Now the question is whether the provision for bad and doubtful debt is the provision for diminution in the value of asset or for known liability of which the amount cannot be determined with substantial accuracy. The provision for bad and doubtful debt is made when the assessee is of the....
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....2 Reverting back to the decision of Hon'ble Madras High Court in the case of Beardsell Ltd., we find that in the above case the Hon'ble Madras High Court considered whether the provision for bad and doubtful debt is an ascertained liability or is not an ascertained liability. It was never contended before Their Lordships that the provision for bad and doubtful debt is not a liability at all but the provision is only for diminution in the value of asset. Therefore, Their Lordships had no occasion to deal with this vital aspect, i.e., whether the provision for bad and doubtful debt is a provision of the diminution of the value of the asset or a provision of known liability. Similarly, I.T.A.T., Kolkata Bench in the case of ICI India Ltd. also proceeded with the presumption that the provision made for bad and doubtful debt was a provision for liability and, therefore, relying upon the decision of Hon'ble Madras High Court in the case of Beardsell Ltd. confirmed the addition in this regard. The learned counsel for the assessee has relied upon the decision of Hon'ble Bombay High Court in the case of Echjay Forgings (P.) Ltd. However, we find that in the above case also t....
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....ro when a debt is considered as bad or doubtful. There is no obligation on an assessee to pay any sum to anybody in such cases. The only consequence that follows in considering the debt as bad or doubtful is that it will reduce or diminish the value of the asset of the assessee on account of non-recovery of the debt." 43.5 ITAT, Delhi Bench "C" in the case of Eicher Motors Ltd. while dealing with Explanation (c) to section 115JA held as under:- "Counsel for the assessee raised a plea that this is not a provision for meeting a liability at all. No doubt, this plea was not taken before the CIT(A), but having regard to the nature of the plea, which is purely a legal plea requiring no investigation into facts, he is permitted to raise the same. A provision for bad and doubtful debts is made with the view to guarding against the non-recovery of certain debts which are considered by the company as bad and doubtful. It implies that monies receivable by the company may not be realized. Explanation (c) refers to amount set aside to provisions made 'for meeting liabilities'. By making the provision for bad and doubtful debts, the assessee is not guarding against any liability whic....
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....f the assets. Once the provision is not for any liability, the question whether the liability is ascertained or unascertained does not arise. We, therefore, hold that clause (c) of theExplanation to section 115J A would not be applicable in respect of provision for bad. and doubtful debts. 44. Now we come tQ the alternate argument of the Ld. D.R. that the provision for bad and doubtful debt would be covered by clause (b) of the Explanation to section 115J A which reads - "the amounts carried to any reserves by whatever name called". 44.1 The Ld. D.R. has relied upon the judgment of the Han'ble. Supreme Court in case of CITv. lyoti Ltd. [1996] 219 ITR 3881, wherein the Hon'ble Supreme Court has held as under :-- "That a clear finding of fact was reached by the Tribunal that the bad debt reserve was created by the assessee-company out of the profit and loss account without reference to the outstanding sundry debtors and was not created with a view to meeting any anticipated liability. It was also not the Revenue's case that the amount set apart for bad and doubtful debts reserve was less than or equal to the amount necessary to be provided for meeting an ascertained l....
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....the relevant dates of the balance sheets. The facts had been found by the Tribunal. Hence, the amounts set apart towards bad and doubtful debts in these cases were 'reserves' qualifying for appropriate relief under rule 1(xi)(b) of the First Schedule and rule 1 (iii) of the Second Schedule to the Act." 44.3 The learned counsel for the assessee, Mr. Poddar, on the other hand, relied upon the decision of Hon'ble jurisdictional High Court in the case of Eyre Smelting (P.) Ltd. And Jugantar (P) Ltd. in support of his contention that the provision for bad and doubtful debt is made for anticipatory contingencies to meet the diminution in the value of assets from unrealized debts and, therefore, the same cannot be treated as reserve for the purpose of computing the capital under the Companies (Profits) Surtax Act, 1964. He has also relied upon the decision of Hon'ble Apex Court in the case of Vazir Sultan Tobacco Co. Ltd. Wherein the Hon'ble Apex Court has considered the meaning of words "provision and reserves" for the purpose of Super Profits-tax Act, 1963. However, in the cases under consideration before us we are concerned with the meaning of the word "reserve" fo....
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....ld the provision made for bad and doubtful debts in those cases to be reserve. Therefore, whether the amount set apart by the assessee by way of provision is, in fact, provision or it is in the nature of reserve will have to be examined with reference to peculiar facts of each case. 45. Now reverting back to the facts in the case of Usha Martin Industries Ltd., we find that in the accounts, the assessee had made the provision for bad and doubtful debts of Rs. 2.20 crores as on 31-3-1997. The provision as on 31-3-1996 was Rs. 64 lakhs. Thus the additional provision of Rs. 1.56 crores is made for the year under consideration. The balance sheet of the assessee is duly audited and certified by the Chartered Accountants and it has nowhere reported that the provision for bad and doubtful debt is excessive in the opinion of either directors or auditors. We also find that the total outstanding debt as on 31-3-1997 was more than Rs. 86 crores against which the provision for bad and doubtful debt was Rs. 2.20 crores, which is even less than 3 per cent of the total debt. The Assessing Officer in the assessment order has nowhere stated that the provision made by the assessee for bad and doubt....
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....e Income-tax Act and sustained by the CIT(A). 47.1 The facts of the case are that for the year under consideration, the assessee filed the return disclosing loss of Rs. 11,41,09,915. However, the book profit computed under section 115JB was disclosed at Rs. 8,08,18,867. The Assessing Officer determined the book profit at Rs. 11,25,21,939 wherein he made the following additions:- (a) Provision for doubtful debts, loans and advances : Rs. 92,74,305 (b) Provision for diminution in the value of assets : Rs. 2,10,41,506. The CIT(A) deleted the addition of Rs. 2,10,41,506 against which the revenue is in appeal vide ITA No. 2449 (Kol.)/2005. The assessee is in appeal against the addition for provision for doubtful debts, loans and advances sustained by the CIT (A). We find that the Assessing Officer has made the addition under Explanation (c) to section 115JB. The CIT (A) has upheld the finding of the Assessing Officer following the decision of Hon'ble Madras High Court in the case of Beardsell Ltd. However, he has alternatively upheld the addition under clause (b) of Explanation to section 115JB. 47.2 After considering the arguments of the parties in the case of Usha Martin In....
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....on (c) to section 115JB. For the detailed discussions earlier in this order, we hold that for diminution in the value of the assets, Explanation (c) to section 115JB would not be applicable. Coming to Explanation (b) to section 115JB, we find that the assessee has given the detailed note before the Assessing Officer explaining the diminution in the value of investment amounting to Rs. 210.42 lakhs. It has nowhere pointed out by the revenue that the above explanation of the assessee is improper or incorrect. The Assessing Officer has also not given any finding that the provision made by the assessee for diminution in the value of investment is unreasonable or incorrect. At the time of hearing before us also, the revenue has not brought on record any evidence to prove that the provision made by the assessee for diminution in the value of investment is unreasonable or excessive. Accordingly, we do not find any justification to interfere with the order of the CIT(A) in this regard. The same is sustained and the revenue's appeal is rejected. 49. Now we come to revenue's appeals in the case of Indian Container Leasing Co. Ltd. For assessment years 1997-98 and 1998-99. The common....